Man vs. Mouse

[chrismahon]

Rats eat mice Marigold and the mice know it, so if you have mice there are no predator rats. On the other had if you have food sources and no mice you will have rats. We had mouse traps in the loft in England and it came as a surprise to find several mice caught had been eaten- that's when the big traps came out.

 

[Margaid]

I was told by a hedge layer that if we destroyed the mouse habitat by clearing out the bottom of the hedges, then the rats would move in. We left the grass etc in the hedge and the cats never caught a rat, it was mainly short tailed voles and the occasional wood mouse - well that's what they brought in! The next door farmer had cleared the undergrowth from the steep bank the other side of the stream- and there were rats.

 

[Marigold]

How's progress on the roof, Rick?

 

[rick]

Well,
I had a bit of a hitch on Wends because, although it was a fairly clear day, I realised that I couldn't support the green roof we are intending on the side walls alone of the extension. It gets a bit technical but if I leave the joists in that support the internal roof (way over spec for that job already) and cross them with the calculated joists to support the green roof, tying them into the wall too, then it makes a very stable box construction and gets around the potential wall stability issue (we don't really have earthquakes around here but just in case!). So I didn't get much further on Wends than deciding that and cutting the new beams to length. The soffit boards will be taller than I thought to accommodate the existing and new beams but that will be OK.
I'm making it sound like a bigger job than it is really! Only 2.5 m ish square - a giant window box!

 

[Margaid]

Ooh, a green roof! Don't forget the drainage!

 

[Hen-Gen]

For Petes sake. More mice this year than ever. Hen food in an old freezer in an outside shed but even so mice in residence and traps set. Last night I was watching TV and heard a scratching noise. Glanced up at kitchen cupboard and there was a mouse. First one ever in my house. It’s war. Traps set and Amazon sending one of those ultrasonic mouse deterrents. If all else fails then it’s kitty time!

 

[rick]

While I'm sure we've had some mice for a few years, its only this year when they have been obviously about in large numbers. I think it was the hot summer - which the insects thrived on - and so then the birds and the mice. All is fair in situations that you can't wrap in 1/2" weld mesh Hen Gen (and Chris). Like your house!!
We defiantly had one come back in the bedroom upstairs in the two days that the high frequency device wasn't plugged in and then gone again when it was (that was the type that also emits a phase shifting signal into the house wiring for which there seems to be some supporting evidence - mice being sensitive to changing magnetic fields??) They don't seem to work outdoors though (even with an extension lead to mimic house wiring) and that may be because the sound part dissipates too quickly in open space (??).
I wont forget the drainage Margaid Its going to be 2" of gravel for drainage, then root barrier, then 4" of soil (mixed with small brick rubble to keep the weight down.) Ive calculated it to take normal fully saturated topsoil with 170% over capacity so should be fine. The proper grade of liner has been difficult to find but a gardener friend has come up with a source.

 

[Marigold]

I'm interested to know what you're going to plant on the roof, Rick. In the long drought of last summer I increased the numbers of sun-proof succulents in our dry chalky garden, and planted up several big bowls of sempervivum, which come in all sorts of colours and shapes, and grow babies round the edges with gratifying speed. You do need very sharp drainage in the soil base, in fact they seem to need practically no water-holding compost although I found they needed a mix of about 1/3 John Innes to 2/3 horticultural grit, just to give them enough soil for their roots to get a grip. My big bowls are mainly under a little roof porch over the front door, so sheltered from most of the rain in winter, but I have one outside in full rain, although I've tilted it away from contact with the ground to increase drainage. I believe you can actually buy suitable compost base material for green roofs, made from ground-up bricks etc?

 

[Margaid]

I was thinking more of the downpipe to take the excess water away!

 

[rick]

I was thinking more of the downpipe to take the excess water away!

Will do!
It is south facing and without shade but easy enough to water. Just outside the bathroom window so could even use the shower head! I was thinking a mix of annuals that will be good for insects and bees and see what else blows in. I guess I could have some sempervivum in terracotta trays, bedded in, or the like in there as well.

 

[rick]

Update, while I'm here and in the flow. Roof liner that was up to spec has finally arrived and, if its not too cold for the adhesive, is going on as soon as possible. Wool insulation below - from black sheep - not cheap but so much more lovely to work with than the glass stuff.
I think the mice have taken a hit in this cold weather and the challenge of getting into the run. Have seen a few out in the daytime gleaning stray bits of scratch over the past few weeks so belts are a bit tight!

 

[Hen-Gen]

Worst year for mice here too. It’s field mice that come in to escape the winter weather. So I’ve initiated blitzkrieg with traps and sonic deterrents. Also all animal feed is kept in an old freezer which keeps them away from that.
But starlings? In the hen sheds, stealing food and pooing everywhere. I have a kiddies plastic tennis racket in each shed hoping that a few deaths would spread through the grapevine to deter the multitude. Hasn’t worked!

 

[rick]

Starlings are funny. I dont know why they live in quantity in central Brum but I never see any around here. They seem to like places where herring gulls also frequent (but not black headed gulls like we have on the river in droves??) I quite like them in the city - cheeky with speckles! But, so, what do you do Hen-Gen? Im imagining you standing by the door and returning the serve when one whizzes through!

 

[rick]

Well...
I had a small area (space between the nest boxes) that was definitely sealed with half inch weld mesh (a little less, 10mm I think) and they got in and left a load of dropping as evidence. They do seem to have been getting smaller in response to the challenge but squeezing through that is a surprise!
However, I have had a bit of a breakthrough.
I bought a very small electric fence unit because a mouse had been sitting on the eggs in the nest box if left in overnight (this means war!!!) So I used some copper tape to go round the nest box sides (its a plastic tray) and because I didnt want to run the risk of a hen ever getting zapped, covered the copper in insulation tape.
Ive also got the fence generator on a timer so its only on in the dark.
No more mice in the nestbox. They seem to dislike very much the EMF given of by the charged pair of wires even without getting close enough, or being able to, to touch them and get a shock.

 

[Marigold]

What a brilliant idea! Only you could have thought of that one, Rick.
I can't help thinking it would also help with the problem of hens sleeping in the nest box overnight....

 

[Margaid]

I used the battery operated electronic mousetraps for a while when I was living in the caravan and the cats often brought live mice in. The mouse ran into what looked like a cartoon mouse-hole and was then zapped when it had paws on both pads simultaneously. I think they were more humane than the traditional "break-back" traps which didn't always kill them outright.

The light on top changed from green to red when the mouse was killed. If the battery was losing power or, as happened once, the critter was too small to bridge the gap between the plates so the light stayed green, I used to pick the trap up carefully keeping the occupant against the end wall and take it outside to release it. i did the same thing with the dead ones and the semi-feral cats who had brought it in would dispose of the corpse for me.

 

[chrismahon]

We put our dead mice in the septic tank Margaid- they do a great job of keeping it working properly. At the peak we had 13 traps going here catching house mice, but having caught around 300, in the last 3 weeks the remaining 6 traps have caught nothing, so hopefully we have wiped them out. At some stage I'll need to check the loft for damage to the insulation because they did take it all off the oil boiler, presumably for nesting material. You are quite right about the snap traps- they don't always kill them outright, but they are cheap!

I'm amazed your mice can get through 10mm holes Rick, but I was told years ago if you can fit a Biro through a door gap a mouse can get through it. Great idea with the EMF. We've had no mice at all in the chicken enclosure and perhaps the electric fence is keeping them away? Fortunately we have no rats here now, but we bought two with us hidden in garden equipment we had stored in a barn. Fortunately our terrier sniffed them out, so I set traps and caught them.

 

[rick]

I'm amazed your mice can get through 10mm holes Rick

Yes, I don't quite believe it either! I did catch 3 of them and one was in a bad way with lots of scratches on the back which could well be the cat but maybe from the wire
Maybe they got into the box some other way but I couldn't see any gnawed holes, just the bottom vents covered in the mesh.
The little fence generator produces 1000v pulses and draws very little current. I can happily hold the output ends. I'm going to run a pair of insulated wires right round the run at the bottom edge. I don't know why nice would be sensitive to this - it's not like they migrate and need a compass! The chickens don't seem to notice it running at all (unless they got a direct shock through contact, of course.)

 

[Margaid]

Maybe it works in a similar way to the plug in "pest scarers" which are supposed to rid your house of woodlice, spiders etc.

 

[rick]

I have a feeling that they might be sensitive to tiny electric fields through their whiskers. Useful for finding small prey in the dark like a catfish looking for hidden prey under the silt. If so, then the electric field from a fence would be very 'loud' and disturbing.
Anyway, seems to do the trick!
Its on of these - really dinky.
https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/gb/de/mini-fence-high-voltage-generator-m-062-p118909.html?r=1